It looks like Orange County will pass a comprehensive Human Rights Ordinance by the end of the year, and Commissioner Bill Segal has played an important role. In a memo calling for consideration of an HRO, Segal said, “It is now the standard for forward thinking communities to establish comprehensive Human Rights Ordinances. The present and future residents of Orange County deserve these same protections.”
In a wide-ranging interview conducted on Sept. 15, Segal describes why he is now pushing for the ordinance, and clarifies his position on other LGBT issues. He also offers a glimpse into his approach to governance, and how he believes he can win election.
Where do you get your news? How do you stay informed?
I’m a news junkie, an absolute information sponge. MSNBC is probably my favorite network, and I also watch CNN. I watch local news broadcasts, read the Sentinel. I listen to a lot of podcast: BBC, NPR… every minute I’m in the automobile.
These are tough times, and politics is certainly stressful. Why do you want to do this? Why do you want to be Orange County’s mayor?
I want to make sure this community is the kind of community that we all want to live in; the kind of community that people want to return to after college. To me that’s a real litmus test: whether you want to come back here after you graduate from college. Will we be a city that people move away from, or a city that people return to, like Austin or Charlotte. And to me, that means bringing good jobs to Central Florida. I’ve spent a lifetime in this community. I came back after I graduated from the University of Miami. I raised my kids here. I love this town. I’ve got deep roots here. It’s just a wonderful hometown. I just want to make sure we have a mayor that really cares about the community.
Right now, that means attending to the economic situation and economic development. These are god-awful times, and I think I will be the best person to bring jobs her, and to move us ahead in a progressive way. I’m a broadminded person—more of an urban type guy. I think we’re in a changing Orange County.
Being mayor is different than being a commissioner. How would your style of leadership different from that of your predecessor, Rich Crotty?
It’s overused, but I’ve got to use it: I’m a consensus builder. I reach out to all segments of the community, and I would reach out to my fellow commissioners. Mayor Crotty did this a number of times. Sometimes you hand off a portfolio to a commissioner who shows a special interest in a subject area, and let them lead the discussion. I get along with people. I’m inclusive. I like to hear all manner of opinions.
Mayor Crotty was in office for 10 years. You see him at a number of events, but at this point in his career I think he goes home most nights. You’ll continue to see my wife and I at a cross-section of community events, out and very accessible.
You worked with former Commissioner Teresa Jacobs for four years. How would your style of leadership differ from hers?
I think Teresa’s trying to reinvent herself, but my opinion is based on past performance. To my mind the leopard never changes its spots. As a commissioner, she was never wrong. I was warned that she would be difficult to get along with, but I get along with everyone so I wasn’t concerned. After six months of working with her, I understood the warning. She has a difficult time relating to people because she has to be right.
I’m the kind of person that gets along with others. I meet people half way. I’ve been in business all my life. You learn that you don’t always get your way, and that to me is a vital in getting things done. I’ve got a light touch. I’m not bellicose. I don’t like fighting all the time. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll fight for those things that I believe in. But she’s contentious, suspicious. If you’re not with her, you’re unethical or you’re a crook.
Can you give me an example of something you’ve fought for as a commissioner?
I believe in civil rights, human rights. I believe strongly in things like the human rights ordinance that’s under consideration right now. Another example would be the relocation of Evans High School. That was a contentious debate with two schools of thought: keep Evans in Pine Hills as a way to fix the neighborhood; or get those kids out of a bad element. I was for getting them out, and I took a lot of heat for my position. But I still believe the right thing was to remove those kids from that bad environment.
At the Metropolitan Business Association LGBT candidate’s forum, you declined to join Commissioner Linda Stewart in calling for immediate consideration of a human rights ordinance. But you recently sent Mayor Crotty a strongly worded memo calling for just that. What changed?
You change the way you go about business when circumstances change. And I think we have a golden opportunity here. The mayor had made it abundantly clear that he would never agenda this item. But two interesting things have happened: first, one commissioner (Tiffany Moore) was reelected, so we know who’ll be sitting in that seat; and second, we all thought the Mayor was going to run against [U.S. Rep. Alan] Grayson and he chose not to do that. So it doesn’t look like he has an immediate future in politics. And I think Rich at heart is a pretty decent, honorable guy. He wanted to keep his Republican bona fides, and it could have been political suicide for him to advance an HRO. But now he’s looking to the private sector, so I think it’s a different dynamic. I said, y’know, let me get behind this one last time. These are the waning days of his administration. He may say, “Let’s do the right thing.”
Let me run down a list of things that may be important to your LGBT constituents that aren’t quite so multi-layered…
Would you participate in Gay Pride events?
I have and I certainly will. Happy to.
Would you meet regularly with local LGBT leaders as Mayor?
I met with the Orlando Anti-Discrimination people last week and Equality Florida earlier this week. Let me tell you something… in six years on the commission I have never failed to meet with anybody that’s wanted a meeting with me, proponent or opponent. As mayor, I can’t tell you that I’ll have time for absolutely everybody, but any organized group, and certainly a group from the LGBT community, I would certainly see them.
Do you support creation of a countywide domestic partner registry? I have a client whose partner is ill and lost his job. When my client tried to get him on his health insurance—he works for a big employer that has partner benefits—he was told they would need to present evidence that they are registered as partners somewhere. They ended up going to Gainesville.
I brought this up two years ago because I’d heard stories about locals and tourists who couldn’t see their partners in the hospital because they weren’t married or blood relatives. Your story provides another vivid example of the benefits of doing something like this. So absolutely, I’m all for it.
Your opponent, Teresa Jacobs, expressed reservations about a human rights ordinance based on concerns that it would be too expensive to enforce. That’s also been one of Mayor Crotty’s sticking points. Any concerns?
I think it’s a fairness issue. We need to do it. You can’t exclude people from basic civil rights based on monetary concerns. It’s that important.
Jacobs also had the same cost concerns about domestic partner benefits for county employees. And she envisioned people not in committed relationships applying for benefits fraudulently. Your thoughts?
The county is self-insured, and we just audited the numbers of people receiving benefits. We found close to 500 ineligible people receiving benefits, and their names had to be purged. An example would be a couple who got divorced and the ex-spouse was still covered. So obviously there have to be benchmarks that demonstrate real commitment—there have to be checks and balances on this kind of thing. But if people are truly in a committed relationship, those benchmarks shouldn’t be difficult to establish and we’ll get it done for them. The City of Orlando does it. Disney does it. We can do it.
In your HRO memo to the Mayor, you described these fairness issues also as economic issues. Can you elaborate?
Major employers, big companies—the Googles, the JetBlues—look at this before they make decisions to relocate or expand in a given locale. It’s one of their basic measures of a community’s livability. If you don’t have an inclusive community with a human rights ordinance, they may not come here. They’ve got other places that want them just as bad as we do, and that appear more enlightened and where their employee base will feel more at home. We need to stack the deck in every way we can to get good employers here.
It really demonstrates the naïveté of people resisting these kinds of fairness protections. Companies that do business in California, New York, New Jersey expect that their LGBT employees will be protected and feel welcome. It’s a give for them; a no brainer. So when they encounter this kind of prejudice, it speaks volumes about a community.
At the risk of stereotyping, I would also ad that the so-called “creative class” it what we hope to attract and keep here in our community. The LGBT community gravitates to the kinds of jobs we want to bring here.
You voted against Amendment 2…
Not only voted against it, I gave money to fight it and went to events to rally votes against it. Again, the same economic issues apply.
… but someone told me that at a Tiger Bay Club meeting you made a point of clarifying that you do not support gay marriage. So where do you stand?
If I said that at Tiger Bay I misspoke. My position is more nuanced than that. I voted against Amendment 2. There should not be a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage in Florida. Granting same-sex marriage rights will most likely be up to the legislature, it’s a hot-button issue, and I haven’t taken a position on it. It’s a divisive issue, it’s not something we’ll likely ever vote on at the county level, and if we ever do I’ll come out with a position. But for right now I don’t have to. I need to be elected Mayor of Orange County so that I can do good things for good people.
That feels like a punt for political expediency.
You can take it any way you want to. That’s exactly how I feel.
Jacobs also said she supports the ban on adoption by gays and lesbians… something that’s difficult for her LGBT supporters to swallow. You’ve said you support overturning the ban.
Absolutely.
I know you served on the county Department of Children and Family Services board that oversees the county foster care facility. Has that experience informed your position on adoption by gays and lesbians?
More than anything, my position is based on the fact that I know so many worthy gay couples, and I know the great need in this community for adoptive parents. Especially for some of the older kids that get moved from foster home to foster home. How can we not allow qualified and loving people who want to provide homes for these kids to adopt them? It’s vital!
Some people are saying that your recent push for an HRO is a play for Linda Stewart’s endorsement. How do you respond to that?
Quite frankly, I expect to get most of Linda Stewarts votes anyway, because we agree on so many other things. This is no play for votes. My push for this right now is because I think we have a unique two or three month window to make this happen.
I’ve also heard, anecdotally, that Jacobs is modifying her positions on LGBT issues since our interview. And that this is also a play for Stewart’s support.
Everybody has the right to change their mind, and everybody should be encouraged to see the light. So if Commissioner Jacobs is gaining a better understanding of these issues, that’s great. We just don’t want it to be a conversion of convenience.
Jacobs got 42% of the vote in the primary to your 23%. What’s your strategy to overcome that big difference?
I’m a student of statistics, and you have to go beyond just the percentages. There were seven people running in the Republican primary to go against [U.S. Rep.] Alan Grayson. There was a hotly contested Republican primary to run against [U.S. Rep.] Suzanne Kosmas. And the Republican gubernatorial primary between Bill McCollum and Rick Scott got a lot of attention.
The Orange County mayoral race is supposed to be non-partisan, but unfortunately it’s been turned into a partisan race. Teresa has embraced that Republican label because she sees it as her path to victory. Most Democrats didn’t vote in this primary; 60% of Republicans did—that’s a huge number for a primary, and a huge difference. But there are many more Democrats registered to vote in Orange County then there are Republicans. We expect to see them out in the general election: to support Alan Grayson, to support Suzanne Kosmas, to support Corrine Brown. And especially to vote for Alex Sink over this guy, Rick Scott. I, of course, can’t say that I’m a Democrat in my campaign literature, but the Sentinel has made clear my party affiliation. That, in large part, is my path to victory.
You have a reputation as being pro-business, pro-development, pro-economic growth. Do envision any Republican crossover?
It’s interesting… I’ve been endorsed by Business Force, which is affiliated with the Chamber of Commerce, and almost all of the labor unions. And that’s because they all know I’m a job creator.
Someone asked me the difference between myself and Commissioner Jacobs, and I said, ‘I’m kind of a governmental conservative and a social liberal. I will watch spending, I don’t want government to grow out of control, but I’m also a social liberal. She’s the other way around. She’s become a social conservative, against a woman’s right to choose an abortion and against gay adoption, for example. Now she’s riding the Republican horse on governmental things, but her past performance has shown her to be big on process, big on red tape, and anti-development and anti-business. Jobs are the big issue in this election so she’s re-inventing herself. I don’t think it’s going to work.
People primarily associate you with development and growth, but when you look at your background it’s filled with service to homeless organizations, foster care, medical care for uninsured children and the like… and all over the course of many years. Any idea why that doesn’t receive as much attention?
After sixty years in the community, I have no idea why some people now want to put a black hat on me, including the Orlando Sentinel. I was born and raised here. People have said to me, ‘I have never seen a newspaper so vengeful and one-sided.’ And not on the editorial page, on the news page! They have been relentless in trying to besmirch me. And Commissioner Jacobs has impugned my integrity.
You’re right! My wife and I have been successful in business, but we live very modestly and have given back. My wife has been on the Maitland Arts Center Board, we’ve both been involved with the Howard Phillips Center for Children and Families and WMFE, the local public broadcasting station. I was one of the founding members of the Coalition for the Homeless. I could go on and on. Whatever charity needs me, I’m there. I’ve done this since I was in my twenties… at a time when others were out there lining their pockets. And I didn’t just go to board meetings. I raised money. I got involved. If it’s a good cause, we’re there.
Let’s look at some of your specific ideas for creating jobs. You propose a property tax rebate for small businesses hiring employees that make 150% of the median wage for the area.
That would be about $58,000… pretty rich for this economy, but that’s why we want to reward small businesses that crate those kinds of jobs. We do a lot of things to attract large businesses. I’m trying to shift down to organic growth in smaller existing businesses.
Looking through my lens, I’d ask why not reward creation of lower paying jobs as well? Watermark pays huge property taxes, but we can’t afford to hire people at close to $60,000 a year.
We debated that long and hard. We didn’t just pull this out of the blue. We had business and labor people sit down at the table, and it goes back to that idea of compromise to get the best possible result. We had a finite amount of money to work with so it only applies to 1,000 jobs, and once it’s gone it’s gone. But we’ll see how it works. We might look at lowering that salary amount in the future.
I have a 27-point plan for creating jobs, and no single idea does it all. But the hope is that this incentive will push a few employers over the edge to hire somebody. We’re in a worldwide recession… it’s not just here.
What about your idea of having Growth Management report to the Director of Economic Development?
On an organizational chart, sometimes you see a direct line and sometimes you see a dotted line. This would be a dotted line to make sure there’s connection and communication. I want us to feel like ‘Team Orange County’ so that when someone comes to us with a good opportunity we can work together to get positive things done efficiently.
But one department is charged with controlling growth, while the other exists to encourage growth. Isn’t there a conflict?
It’s a legitimate concern, and that’s why it would be a dotted line. I believe in the urban service boundary as it exists; I’ve fought to expand it in some circumstances. Sometimes it’s not just growing out; it may be growing up. We just want to make sure that if an opportunity arises that will create good jobs, the presenters won’t have to go through a long drawn-out process to get something accomplished. Sometimes bureaucratic processes turn people off.
Seems like it would work if the person at the helm…
…is able to balance things. You’ve got to have balance. Three things I value are judgment, balance and experience, and I think I offer those things to the people who live in Orange County.
I’m curious about the relationship between the county and the local Convention and Visitors Bureau. Orlando and Orange County have attractions found nowhere else in the world, and they have tremendous appeal to the LGBT community. In these tough economic times, you’d think we’d be trying to lure every traveler we can, but the CVB does little or no outreach to our community… probably because they’re so concerned about projecting a family-friendly image. Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami have all marketed directly to the LGBT community with positive results. Any thoughts?
Orange County is a funding partner of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and every year they present their plan to county commissioners. Tom, I could swear that they included the LGBT community as one of their target markets last year.
They should. If not, we’ll push it.
Is there anything that Orange County government can do to address the housing situation? I believe that is holding the economy back more than anything, if for no other reason that so many people are upside down in their homes and thus reluctant to spend.
Tom, I could go on for hours about this situation and its implications. There’s not a whole lot the county can do, but we’re administering neighborhood stabilization programs and buying select homes and fixing them up and reselling them to credit-worthy people. Our code enforcement people are monitoring homes and keeping them up and then charging the banks for any repairs. It’s a nationwide problem, and one sidebar is that people can’t take jobs outside their community because they can’t sell their house. We’ve frozen peoples’ mobility. I think it’s going to sort itself out, but it will take time
Last question: looking four years into the future, what will tell you whether you’ve been successful as Orange County Mayor?
We came very close to a worldwide depression, and it’s going to be a long time coming out of this recession. I want to make sure Orange County emerges from this on more stable economic footing, and that county government will be in a stronger position. Now mind you, I’m not a profligate spender. We will come out of this, and when we do I want us to have learned from the experience.
I’ll be pleased to see that Sunrail and high speed rail have begun. I’m a great believer in an urban lifestyle, so I want to see more housing and transportation options that will support a more vibrant, urban—and more urbane—Orange County. That would be a real hallmark for me. And I don’t take an ‘us vs. them’ attitude when it comes to the City of Orlando. I have a great working relationship with Orlando’s mayor, and I feel like their successes are our successes. I really mean that.
Passing a comprehensive human rights ordinance, and better defining Orange County as a livable city for all of its citizens would be a good third.
